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kdinjenzen:

nastiazuchko:

grifalinas:

directium:

kdinjenzen:

Hi, welcome to my Ted Talk, today we will be dealing with something that has bothered me about Disney’s Robin Hood since I was a kid and I still cannot get over to this very day.

And it all stems from THESE THREE PEOPLE:

Maid Marian, Prince John, and King Richard

I’m going to preface this entire thing by saying THIS version of Robin Hood is very very VERY different than the source material, much like all Disney animated films, but it wasn’t really DISNEY who did the big changes… those just came over time with making things more… I’m just going to say “normal for society”, which is ultra double lame.

BUT that’s not the point, because that stuff happens everywhere and with everything, and if I started to complain about THAT we’d be here all day, and I’m already going to take more of your time than needed to complain about something SUPER unimportant from a children’s animated movie made in 1973.

ANYWAY!

So, in the movie the titular character, Robin Hood, is a fox.  Makes total sense, foxes are crafty, hard to catch, cunning, and known for getting into and out of situations that other animals would have difficulty with.  Take that and turn it into an anthropomorphic character and you’d get someone who would easily be against the normal laws, not BAD, but would do BAD to do GOOD. Robin is a show off when he wants to be, and quiet when he has to be.

He’s a pretty perfect Robin Hood, especially in the case of animated kids movies, his characteristics just work SO WELL with his personification as a fox. GOOD STUFF, if I do say so myself!

Little John, meanwhile, is a bear. Not just any bear, but a big ol’ lovable brown bear. This plays on the idea of Little John being a cheeky nickname because Little John is a big, strong, and above all the calm, cool, and rationally smart one of the two. Robin may be clever, but John is the big picture guy. Pun intended.

These two designs and animal choices work SO well with each other, and it’s because these two are so different yet they get along and honestly NEED one another that makes the differences so perfect.

ALAN-A-DALE IS A ROOSTER. BRILLIANT. I don’t even have to go into this, do I? What a GREAT call by making Alan-A-Dale a rooster.  Though, I feel a bit of his characteristics were also borrowed from Will Scarlet for the Disney version, but even that still fits everything. And, honestly, I don’t mind the blending of Alan and Will, it kinda works? Especially with the movie being as short as it is.

ROOSTER BARD. ROOSTER. BARD. So good, I mean c’mon. It’s perfection.

The Sheriff of Nottingham being a wolf is… okay. It’s okay. I get it though, having the wolf hunt the fox. Haha. Cheeky. Cliche, but cheeky.

I really have nothing to say about him, he’s just…okay. Dude’s a cop, so whatever. Not a fan of bootlickers, and the fact that they’re dragging wolves in the mud by making a wolf into a cop is… whatever. /He’s A Wolf Cop/

Personally, I don’t like Friar Tuck as a badger. It really doesn’t make sense to me, and I lowkey hate it that they totally missed so many opportunities. DOVE OF PEACE? LAMB OF GOD? Like FOR REAL, you coulda done something super cute like that, but NOoOoOoOoOoO… he’s a badger. And they kinda pick on him for half the movie, for no reason, and I don’t like that.

Still, Friar Tuck is cute, and a really fun character and they do some clever animation stuff with his “badger”-ness. Still a bit of a missed opportunity.

OKAY NOW THAT WE’VE GOT THESE OTHER BIG ONES OUT OF THE WAY, IT’S TIME FOR MY ACTUAL PROBLEM!

MAID FRICKIN MARIAN IS A FOX.

WHAT THE FRICKEN FRICKITY FRACK?!

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Disney did this JUST because they wanted Maid Marian and Robin Hood to be THE SAME ANIMAL, and that’s ABSOLUTE BUNK!

WHY? Well there’s two BIG reasons that is irks me!

First, the idea that they HAD to be together because they were the same animal or they were made to be the same animal so it wouldn’t be “weird” that they were together.

LAME! UNINSPIRED! BULLSHI-

*ehem* Nonsense. Nonsense.

And it’s even MORE nonsense because of this little fact…

PRINCE JOHN AND KING RICHARD ARE HER RELATIVES!

MAID MARIAN THE NIECE OF PRINCE JOHN AND KING RICHARD!

Okay, you could argue that Maid Marian was adopted, or that King Richard married a lovely fox woman and the fox woman’s relative had a daughter and THAT was Maid Marian. And YES, that would make the situation plausible…

EXCEPT!

This is MEDIEVAL ENGLAND and they are ROYALTY and that kinda stuff wouldn’t fly even IF King Richard is the King.

WHAT I’M SAYING IS…

DISNEY ARE COWARDS FOR NOT HAVING A BIG LIONESS LADY DATE A TINY FOX MAN AND WE WERE ROBBED!

#I cannot focus enough to read all of this but that last part is a GREAT POINT

I really recommend reading the rest, it’s gold

Also this post is a goddamn mood

I couldn’t rest until I brought this lioness to life. I hope my humble Maid Marian does your imagination justice! [profile] kdinjenzen

YESSSSSSSS~
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itinerantvae:

I see there’s another Robin Hood movie coming out soon, so if anyone only knows about Nottingham from Robin Hood movies, here are some things you might not know.

Nottingham Castle is on top of a sandstone cliff. Yes, on one side you can access it from the city, but on the other side, cliff. There are caves and tunnels running through the cliff. You probably couldn’t get over the walls with a ladder (looking at you Robin of Sherwood) or ping yourself over them on a catapult (this one’s on you, Prince of Thieves), but if you knew the caves and tunnels, you could find a way in. You’d probably encounter guards pretty soon after, because most inhabitants of the castle also knew about the tunnels and caves.

Nottingham still has a castle, yes! But it is not the one from the time of the Robin Hood ballads. See, in the 17th century, England had a Civil War, which was not very civil but was pretty war-y, and Nottingham picked the Royalist side. Cromwell wasn’t very happy about that, so once he and his troops had conquered Nottingham’s defenses, he ordered the castle to be “slighted”. Sounds pretty mild? Nope, it means “bomb the fuck out of the bastard 11th century castle so no one can use it as defense against us ever again”. Don’t be one of those tourists who stands outside the castle grounds gates and asks locals where the castle is. We know it doesn’t look like the one in the movies.

Nottingham gets called a “City of Caves”. Guess why? There are a fuckload of caves under the city. At various points in Nottingham’s history, people have lived in the caves, worked in the caves, had tanneries and workshops in the caves, used the caves for storage, and also used the caves as bomb shelters. (Admittedly probably not during the time that the Robin Hood legends are set, unless the sheriff had bomber planes I never heard about.) Because Nottingham’s built on sandstone, the caves tend to be warm and dry instead of cold and damp. You can visit some of them - the entrance is through a shop in a shopping mall. There’s also an ongoing cave exploration project because we still haven’t actually mapped all the caves in Nottingham, or even found them all. In a lovely case of nominative determinism, the project is led by Dr Strange-Walker. 

In the 12th century (I’m going with 12th century for Robin Hood setting because of Richard the Lionheart and the third crusade etc etc), Nottingham was not a new city. It got mentioned in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle (that’s 9th century, tick it off on your bingo cards) as a significant settlement. By the time the Domesday Book was recorded, it went by the name of Snotingham, so I think we can all agree it was a good thing that they updated the name of the city not long after that. (Sorry, Snotingas, you’re not that revelant to Robin Hood, even if you probably were pretty royal as far as things went in the 9th century.) So by the time Robin and the Sheriff rock up, Nottingham’s pretty established as an important city with a court and a big marketplace and a castle up on top of Castle Rock. (Did I mention the 130ft cliff? I think it’s worth mentioning again because no filmmakers ever seem to have heard of it.)

Nottingham’s built next to a river. Cricket fans will have heard of Trent Bridge, and the Trent is the river that goes through Nottingham. Water for industry, water for washing, water for making beer (very important, you can’t just drink the water, it’s full of nasty stuff that will kill you in painful ways, yes that does include now). The river runs pretty close to the bottom of Castle Rock, which is probably why BrewHouse Yard is at the bottom of the cliff, next to the river. (It wasn’t called BrewHouse Yard until the 17th century, though, it just was a brew house in the 11th century onwards. It’s in caves.) Want your outlaws to have a quick getaway from the castle? Send them through the tunnels and caves and then give them a boat. Go down the river, though, not across it - the first bridge over the Trent was probably built in the 10th century so soldiers could ride across that faster than getting into a boat, getting the thing out of the rushes, rowing across the current, getting into the rushes on the other side and then getting out onto the bank to say hello to the not so nice soldiers.

You might have guessed it from the mention of beer and breweries, but Nottingham has pubs. Nottingham, in fact, has some of the oldest surviving pubs in Britain. Ye Olde Trip To Jerusalem was probably built in the first half of the 12th century, and the room downstairs is literally a cave, but it’s a cave with a bar. If you’re touristing, go for the storytelling and folk music. If you’re local, you’ve probably never been there. Anyway, your merrie band of outlaws could absolutely have had a few pints in the Trip, as long as they weren’t worried about castle guards drinking in there too. Unless the whole story about the Trip is a big tourist trap (look, proof is hard to find and so are customers with that much competition for the tourists) and the caves were, in fact, still the castle breweries in the 12th century.

In conclusion, Hadrian’s Wall is not on the way between Dover and Nottingham and it runs east-west (so pointing off it at right angles is very unlikely to be east Kevin Costner) and Nottingham as a city has many plot-useful geographic features. Since filmmakers are apparently determined to ignore them, why not make use of them in your fanfic or published Robin Hood retelling? Anyone who actually knows the geography of Nottingham will thank you.

This post is brought to you by the gales of laughter in the Savoy Cinema on Derby Road when Prince Of Thieves was on cinema release and they put up a still of a building that claimed to be “Nottingham Castle”.
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Sean was asked what Disney song would he sing to Regina.
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