athousanderrors: from 'Spirited Away' - soot sprites, clutching confetti stars, running about excitedly. (Default)
[personal profile] athousanderrors
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triss19:

duxbelisarius:

triss19:

rufeepeach:

The Germans in Wonder Woman are not Nazis.

I just saw a troubling comment on a gifset of Antiope and her badass three-arrow stunt shot at the three german soldiers on the beach. I love that moment as much as anyone. However, this comment referred to her ‘killing Nazis’. And those men were not Nazis. 

Wonder Woman is set in WW1. Hitler would not come to power for over a decade after WW1 ended. Fascism had not yet become a political force in Europe. In fact, Germany’s treatment as a defeated aggressor instead of as an equal party in the armistice negotiations - and later the Treaty of Versailles - despite the Allies’ equal culpability for the war, directly contributed to the rise of fascism and nationalism in Germany.

Stop calling the German soldiers in Wonder Woman Nazis. One of the greatest tragedies of WW1 is that the soldiers on both sides of the trenches were hungry, young, sick, poor men, who had no stake in the war. This article talks about the experiences (at least early in the war) of both sides on the Western front meeting on no man’s land and finding little difference between one another. 

There’s a lot to love about Wonder Woman, and I very much enjoyed it. I also loved the points in the movie when the violence done by Americans and British - such as when Diana speaks to Chief about the death of his people - were addressed as well, but they were brief. The presentation of Germans As The Bad Guys - especially since Aries’ influence was inconsistent as a plot point - has led to people mistakenly reading it as a movie about Nazis, when the Nazis did not exist in 1918. A WW1 setting does not sustain a narrative of one side being ‘heroic’ and the other ‘villainous’, especially if one takes into account the atrocities both sides had committed during the quarter century leading up to the armistice. It troubles me that this movie allows WW1 German soldiers to be read as Nazis. 

Please stop referring to Nazis in the context of Wonder Woman.

Historical illiteracy in action.

This is definitely historical illiteracy, but OP makes a number of statements that require a response.

“In fact, Germany’s treatment as a defeated aggressor instead of as an equal party in the armistice negotiations - and later the Treaty of Versailles -”

Who was occupying Belgium, Luxembourg, North-Eastern France and much of Eastern Europe? The Germans. Whose Army was being pushed back to it’s borders? Germany. They were the aggressors, and they agreed to the terms of surrender.

“despite the Allies’ equal culpability for the war, directly contributed to the rise of fascism and nationalism in Germany.“

Who invaded France and Belgium in 1914? Who gave the blank check to Austria-Hungary? Who’s leaders were preparing for a war with Russia since 1912, and baited them into mobilizing in July 1914? Imperial Germany. There is no “equal culpability” here. And Fascism only gained hold in Italy, while Nationalism had been a force well before World War One and would have remained so regardless. It was the Great Depression that gave Hitler his window of opportunity.

“ One of the greatest tragedies of WW1 is that the soldiers on both sides of the trenches were hungry, young, sick, poor men, who had no stake in the war.”

This was an exceptionally brutal war, but plumbing the diaries and memoirs of the participants reveals a cornucopia of emotional responses to the conflict, from enthusiastic involvement (see A. O. Pollard, Ernst Junger, Adrian Carton de Wiart) to ambivalence (Edmund Blunden, Frederic Manning), to outright revulsion (Henri Barbusse, Rudold Binding). The fact that the German and British Armies especially never experienced major mutinies and remained combat effective until the end (at least the British did) is testimony to the ability of these men to survive and persevere in the most inhospitable of environments. And claiming they had no stake in the war is extremely contentious. Did the soldiers of the German 1st Cavalry Division have no stake in the war in 1914, when Russian troops occupied their home of East Prussia? What about the Belgians and the Serbs, whose homes were invaded and occupied? What would you say to the French soldiers whose country faced invasion and plunder by the Germans in 1914, and was devastated by the German retreat of 1918? What about the soldiers of the Polish and Czech Legions, fighting for national independence; did they not have a stake? And given that over half of the British soldiers, and most of the commonwealth soldiers, who fought in the war were volunteers, is it right to suggest that they had no stake? Their actions suggest otherwise.

“A WW1 setting does not sustain a narrative of one side being ‘heroic’ and the other ‘villainous’”

heroic and villainous are certainly emotionally loaded terms, and applicable to men on both sides, but moral relativism is hardly the answer here.

@triss19, @byzantinefox, @rufeepeach

Good info.
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